Saturn/Penske

[Eileen Creason]

Just got the news release! Sounds like a great combination. As a very satisfied Saturn owner, I am pleased to see the brand with its fine reputation and great service network being preserved.

[JOHN NALTY]

Well now that Saturn is dead. That does it for me! I will NEVER buy GM again. GM is truly dead to me. I loved Saturn and this is a blow for the auto industry!

[Russ]

I will say that I will seriously revisit the final Aura's at Saturn in 2011 or 2012, as my 2008 will likely be getting up there in miles. It will still be a great design, and I would buy another one. I just saw photos of the new (Opel based) 2010 Buick Lacrosse, and the Aura is still a nice design in my opinion. I was seriously considering a Vue for when my Ford Freestyle is ready to be replaced, although I am now looking at the redesigned Equinox - which no supposedly will be getting the non-cancelled Vue 2-mode drivetrain in mid-2010 as a 2011 model.

[JASON J.]

Mr. Penske,
Please start making the Saturns in Springhill TN again and offer us the polymer body panels, diesel engines and manual transmissions. Also, employee the same quality control people from the Buick Roadmaster plant that made that vehicle to very exacting specifications thus resulting in customer satisfaction. Keep America strong and don't keep outsourcing all aspects of production. Times are hard and good employees will work for less while still maintaining their loyalty when the customes sing their praises by being well pleased with their automobiles. It's not always about money to people, it's about loyalty and good customer service after the sale. Just my thoughts and the opinions expressed here are not necessarily for anyone other than me, myself and I. Common sense and a positive attitude goes a long way in business and in life. :-)

[George L. Miranda]

Sorry I'm late, but Go Penske!! Was hoping something like this would happen. Hopefully Government Motors will be pulling out their hair with frustration as they see what a mistake they made.

[Opel]

Rick - There´s a big difference between Opel and the other brands of General Motors like Buick or Pontiac, because Opel is an independent automotive group and the same applies to GM Daewoo or simply Daewoo in South Korea. GM's automotive brands in
Europe are Opel, Vauxhall, Saab, Chevrolet, ... and the industrial parts of the brand, such as factories and especially the development center in Ruesselsheim are called GM Europe, but they are still Opel. After the separation from GM and through the acquisition of Magna, the European business of General Motors and other activities of Opel and Vauxhall will be placed in an independent new Adam Opel AG again in the future. Some of GM´s new platforms (Delta and Epsilon), designs (e.g. Saturn Sky), cars, suspensions, engines and technologies like HydroGen or the new Chevrolet Volt were also developed at Opel´s development center in Ruesselsheim

[Russ]

Rick - You are missing the point here. There is a big difference between GM "world car platform" engineering (and yes, it IS engineering to take a design and substantially modify/differentiate it for different audiences as GM does, say Opel for Europe - Saturn for one US market - etc) versus slapping a Saturn emblem on a Samsung substantially engineered in Japan and sourced-manufactured in Korea. At least the Saturn Astra (re-badged Opel manufactured in Europe) is a GM Parent company product with the profits coming back to the US. Even dating back to the 50's, various Ford, Chrysler and GM products shared platforms, engines, etc. So this is not a new twist. Every GM engine produced today can trace its basic design back 50 years+. It is evolution, not revolution in the auto industry. That said, many of us will not purchase a Penske re-badged import. That is part of how the US auto industry dug a hole in the first place. The only thing the Big Three should have focused on improving vs the imports is Quality, not brand proliferation. They did finally learn this, but it was too late to stem the bleeding caused by too many redundant products - too many plants - too much duplicate captial investment. It was not the unions - labor or legacy costs (they are actually a relatively small % of the cost of the cars). It was the overhead (management salaries, cost of historical investments/borrowing, etc - look at the court documents) and poor brand and labor management over many-many years. Primarily because the Saturn Brand Promise has been comprised. I cannot support that - no matter how "well-engineered" or "stylish" the new Saturn products may be. I have seen no evidence that Penske plans to retain/purchase any GM plants or US manufacturing jobs. But that is my opinion and decision, and you have a right to your own choices. Time will tell.

[Rick V.]

Oh my, you guys realize that to GM there is no "Saturn" or "Pontiac" or "Buick" or even "Opel" as 'companies' but just brands. GM sees: GM North America, GM Europe, GM Daewoo... Saturn, Pontiac, Buick... they don't "engineer" anything per se with the exception of some badges which is what some dub, "badge engineering." Some of you still think it's the 60's with the way GM operates I swear. GM North America will engineer an engine (say LE5) and a platform (say Epsilon) and then from there whatever little brands (because they are more of a brand then a full-fledged company) they have will get to throw on some of their own little doo-dads and vuela, we have a G6, Malibu and Aura. The next gen Epsilon is already underpinning the new Opel Insignia and the 2010 Buick LaCrosse. The previous Epsilon platform wasn't completely a "world car" yet, this newest gen was supposed to be before all of this tomfoolery occured.

ANYWHO, with that said, it seems Saturn will have an opportunity to become more independent than it ever was (including its early years) and I wish it the best. My loyalties lie with who ever happens to make the best sports car for my money at the time, but I'm not ignorant to the subculture of brand loyalty as my mother has had several Saturns and I have a few buddies that are totally indoctrinated into Volkswagen. Unfortunately, it's neither the Saturn enthusiast nor the hardened, cynical individual who bemoans Saturn for still not being what they once were that's going to make the difference. Saturn needs to penetrate the market, more so than ever.

I say that because I know of a few graduates that got a Saturn because it was "different" but still GM; I know wayyy more people loyal to GM than I do Saturn. So, if Saturn is no longer affiliated with GM (and, in time, their cars are no longer the same), Saturn is going to have to stand on it's own two feet.

Yes it does worry me that Saturn will become just a badge for Korean, Chinese, or even French (which wouldn't be too bad as the latest Peugots are quite stunning to look at). Penske could always use Saturn's "brand image" to push that sort of thing, sure. But I guess all we can do is hope that Saturn remains American AND makes products Saturn can truly be proud of... so, no more Ions with different color arches and an interior with a gimmicky layout in a fruitless attempt to hide it's poor fit-and-finish... k? K!

[Rob]

Russ

Sorry, I misunderstood what you were saying. And I do my research. I have followed Saturn since it's inception and read all I can whenever it has to do with Saturn and it's products.

The one point I completely agree on you made was the lack of support from GM even when the Aura was thrust into the spotlight with being named Car of the Year. It was the press Saturn really needed and yet to this day, so many don't know what products Saturn offers.

[Russ]

Rob -

Do your own research my friend. Or are you insinuating I did not. Did I not say that the Aura design borrowed styling cues from the Vectra? And is build on the Epsilon platform. What I said was that the Aura IS NOT a rebadged Vectra (ie: manufactured outside the US and rebadged to import into the US, like the Astra is). I have MANY references that state the design work was done in the US. The cars share no major components. Or are you saying that the 1) engine, 2) transmission, 3) interior components or 4) majority of body components are shared with the Vectra. No, because very few are. How about you listing the components that are shared with the Vectra. Now, some components can be interchanged like the grille and some emblems, but hardly anything else (lets see you try to swap the bumpers, light assemblies, hood or anything else from a Vectra onto an Aura). Hardly a "rebadged" Vectra, do you think. Now look at the Aura and Malibu. Do you realize that much of the Malibu does share components with the Aura (which was designed and sold almost 2 years before the Malibu). Front door panels, roof panel, many glass panels, much of the interior and underpinnings and drivetrain.

[Rick Cockroft]

I think this is strategically great! Roger Penske's racing knowledge and expertise combined with Saturn's brillant engineers and team make for a beautiful "mutually destructive co-dependent relationship"